Diapers or Catheters or Both
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Archives1
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Hi @Cca197. Do you know the cause of your urinary retention? Is it related to an enlarged prostate? And have your doctors proposed any treatment for the cause of the retention?
Urinary retention is uncomfortable and debilitating, and three years is a long time to have suffered with it. Neither diapers nor catheters will address the cause of your urinary retention, and I sincerely hope that you are only having to consider these while you wait for surgery.
Also have you been trained in how to perform self-cathing, and if so how did you find it? You should only make this choice when you know how it will go for you. Everyone is different and you need to take an informed decision based on your own experience.
In my case I'm very averse to the idea of manipulating a catheter into myself. I'm not very dexterous in the fingers, and I'm also worried about triggering UTIs. The risk of having to self-cath was enough to put me off botox as a treatment for OAB.
Whatever you decide, make sure you try both options first.
And good luck with getting treatment for the retention. Hopefully you can get to a place where you won't need either diapers or catheters soon.
Urinary retention is uncomfortable and debilitating, and three years is a long time to have suffered with it. Neither diapers nor catheters will address the cause of your urinary retention, and I sincerely hope that you are only having to consider these while you wait for surgery.
Also have you been trained in how to perform self-cathing, and if so how did you find it? You should only make this choice when you know how it will go for you. Everyone is different and you need to take an informed decision based on your own experience.
In my case I'm very averse to the idea of manipulating a catheter into myself. I'm not very dexterous in the fingers, and I'm also worried about triggering UTIs. The risk of having to self-cath was enough to put me off botox as a treatment for OAB.
Whatever you decide, make sure you try both options first.
And good luck with getting treatment for the retention. Hopefully you can get to a place where you won't need either diapers or catheters soon.
Archives1
Staff member
If you suffer from urinary retention, there is usually no other option than ISC. You probably then also suffer from overflow incontinence, which means that you constantly lose small amounts when the bladder is full. So if an indwelling catheter is not an option, incontinence pads and ISC are probably the only options. Diapers alone won't work there because urinary retention can be quite dangerous. If urine backs up into the kidney, it can lead to acute renal failure, which is a life-threatening situation that requires immediate medical attention.
Whether in the case of overflow incontinence actually diapers are needed must be seen - usually incontinence pads are also sufficient, which in case of doubt are also more comfortable to wear and change.
Whether in the case of overflow incontinence actually diapers are needed must be seen - usually incontinence pads are also sufficient, which in case of doubt are also more comfortable to wear and change.
Archives1
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I wish pads were sufficient but for me they’re not. I’ve got bladder spasms or oab and retention. The urologist has taught me how to self cath and They haven’t said what they think the cause is for the retention and for the spasms one urology doctor has thought it’s because of a slipped disk at L5S1 but I went to several back surgeons and they all say it’s not the back so who knows. I think it is the back because I also occasionally have bowel incontinence as well. I can go on my own but never able to empty completely as well as when I have spasms it never empties completely either so I guess as long as I spasm six hours or less I don’t have to self cath if I just want to stick with wearing diapers. Doctors haven’t proposed any treatment for the retention part. Also I don’t really have any feeling of when I need to go or when the bladder fills to a certain point. I only get the feeling that I need to go when a spasm is happening. So for me the retention isn’t uncomfortable. I can’t even tell at all. Usually for spasms I end up going through about eight to ten diapers or so a day if I don’t self cath.
Archives1
Staff member
Hello Cca197,
I'm sorry to hear that. I think you are right - a herniated disc at L5S1 can cause such problems. So I wonder a bit why the doctors conclude that this is not the cause of your problems.... Did you have the problems before the surgeries as well?
As for the cramps - I know the problem - for me it is a problem with the nerves in the bladder itself. At the moment I'm lucky enough to be able to empty my bladder more or less completely, even if it sometimes takes a while. But I'm also afraid that if it gets worse, I won't be able to.
If it hasn't already, it might be a good idea to get a UD to make sure the pressure can't get high enough to cause kidney failure. Also, this may confirm the neuronal problems as well. When it comes to retention, even six hours can be critical in the worst case, depending on fluid intake. Residual urine can also cause problems. So until a urologist has said it's okay to do this, I wouldn't trust a GP or orthopedist.
I may be a bit overly nervous here - but a friend of mine almost died from kidney failure. He told that he didn't notice, suddenly tired and fell asleep. When his wife found him - he was already unresponsive. He was taken to the hospital by ambulance, and he was lucky. Maybe half an hour later and that would have been it. Since then, I have a lot of respect for situations like that.
I'm sorry to hear that. I think you are right - a herniated disc at L5S1 can cause such problems. So I wonder a bit why the doctors conclude that this is not the cause of your problems.... Did you have the problems before the surgeries as well?
As for the cramps - I know the problem - for me it is a problem with the nerves in the bladder itself. At the moment I'm lucky enough to be able to empty my bladder more or less completely, even if it sometimes takes a while. But I'm also afraid that if it gets worse, I won't be able to.
If it hasn't already, it might be a good idea to get a UD to make sure the pressure can't get high enough to cause kidney failure. Also, this may confirm the neuronal problems as well. When it comes to retention, even six hours can be critical in the worst case, depending on fluid intake. Residual urine can also cause problems. So until a urologist has said it's okay to do this, I wouldn't trust a GP or orthopedist.
I may be a bit overly nervous here - but a friend of mine almost died from kidney failure. He told that he didn't notice, suddenly tired and fell asleep. When his wife found him - he was already unresponsive. He was taken to the hospital by ambulance, and he was lucky. Maybe half an hour later and that would have been it. Since then, I have a lot of respect for situations like that.
Archives1
Staff member
Ya I’ve had several urodynamics. That’s what confirmed the bladder spasms and retention. All of the urodynamics I’ve had confirms that. I started having these problems several years ago and I tried fixing through urologists. One of the Urologist that I’ve seen is the one that gave the option to self cath a month ago.
Archives1
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As @MichaelDahlke pointed out, it's not an either/or solution. If you have retention, you likely need to do intermittent self-catheterization (ISC), regardless of whether or not you have incontinence. If you leak urine, you need a diaper, regardless of whether you do ISC.
If your doctor recommend a Foley or a suprapubic catheter, then that could take the place of botg diapers and ISC, but few doctors will do a long-term indwelling catheter in a patient who can manage with ISC. There are side effects of long-term indwelling catheters, including infection and urethral erosion.
I hope you're able to find the root causes of your problems and get some relief from them!
If your doctor recommend a Foley or a suprapubic catheter, then that could take the place of botg diapers and ISC, but few doctors will do a long-term indwelling catheter in a patient who can manage with ISC. There are side effects of long-term indwelling catheters, including infection and urethral erosion.
I hope you're able to find the root causes of your problems and get some relief from them!
Archives1
Staff member
HI @Cca197, I agree that trying to find the root cause of your problems is the priority here. Once you have that information then it will be time to figure out whether a catheter is right for you and if so, what type to use for best relief as well as being the safest re: infection, etc.
Do you live near a hospital with a half-way decent urology department? That may be a good source for getting some info.
Do you live near a hospital with a half-way decent urology department? That may be a good source for getting some info.
Archives1
Staff member
I have been told to self cath however honestly I have never had enough guts to do it yet myself lol.
My concerns also is the increase risk of uti’s and also the scarring from intermittent catherization as at some point scarring restricts flow etc more and then they need to basically roto rooter my penis out/ uretha which I just don’t really see the need to go through if avoidable.
So for now I just stick to diapers and switch them according to my needs etc. If going on a long trip then mega max works great. Short trips / meetings abena m4 work awesome for me and otherwise if around the house depend real fit work great as most of the time I will reach the toilet prior to issues.
All of my issues are from scarring thanks to ms.
Cheers
Jason
My concerns also is the increase risk of uti’s and also the scarring from intermittent catherization as at some point scarring restricts flow etc more and then they need to basically roto rooter my penis out/ uretha which I just don’t really see the need to go through if avoidable.
So for now I just stick to diapers and switch them according to my needs etc. If going on a long trip then mega max works great. Short trips / meetings abena m4 work awesome for me and otherwise if around the house depend real fit work great as most of the time I will reach the toilet prior to issues.
All of my issues are from scarring thanks to ms.
Cheers
Jason
Archives1
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Ya I guess it’s half way decent urology office. I think they said if this PTNS doesn’t work since I’ve tried all other treatment options Like medications, Resume, Interstim, several Bladder Botox injections up to maximum levels that surgery may be the next step. Thanks @Itapilot I hope I do too.
Archives1
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Cca I am very sorry to hear about your brother. That sucks.
Fortunately I recovered 96% of what I lost prior to being formally diagnosed with ms so I can’t really complain lol. Back then I couldn’t walk and couldn’t sleep on my right side without barfing my guts out.. So I have to deal with incontinence and bladder spasms oh well at least I can walk and run again it’s all perspective is my view.
At least you have been seeing urologists to rule out the ugly diseases that could be causing your issues. However it also sucks that they can’t fully explain it. Oh the joys of the human body and how little we truly know about it.
Cheers
Jason
Fortunately I recovered 96% of what I lost prior to being formally diagnosed with ms so I can’t really complain lol. Back then I couldn’t walk and couldn’t sleep on my right side without barfing my guts out.
. So I have to deal with incontinence and bladder spasms oh well at least I can walk and run again it’s all perspective is my view. At least you have been seeing urologists to rule out the ugly diseases that could be causing your issues. However it also sucks that they can’t fully explain it. Oh the joys of the human body and how little we truly know about it.
Cheers
Jason
Archives1
Staff member
@Jwh51 wow that sucks too. Ya my brother had to learn to be vertical again and then learn how to walk again. At first all he could move was his head and you really had to concentrate on his hand and fingers to see if you felt anything to the slightest when he tried to move it. The best he was able to get with rehab was using a quad cane and afos. Around the house he’d sometimes walk without any help of any kind. He’s with Jesus now completely healed.
Archives1
Staff member
I can attest to the complications possible (or should that be likely?) with using a catheter. At least some of my issues can be blamed on problems I had being catheterized (I kept pulling it out and am now thoroughly familiar with a device known as the cystoscope...). I honestly can't imagine ever self-cathing, so, I don't blame you, Jason.
I've made a point of saying 'never again' in the presence of my doctor and my urologist. They don't press me on it, thankfully. Steer clear of it, if at all possible.
I've made a point of saying 'never again' in the presence of my doctor and my urologist. They don't press me on it, thankfully. Steer clear of it, if at all possible.
Archives1
Staff member
Well everyone, have yet another appointment with a different Orthopedic Doctor next week to see if I can get a Doctor to agree that the bladder spasms and bowel incontinence is from my back at L5S1 along with occasional sciatica, numbness,itching, sometimes tingling and pins and needles in both feet. Urologists have thought It’s the back and an orthopedic doctor has too but when I go to a surgeon or several they say no it’s not the back and I’ve tried every treatment possible for the bladder spasms and continue to have to deal with all this everyday. So I don’t know. Be praying that the right people see what’s going on and maybe fix it by God giving them wisdom in my case. At L5S1 there’s herniated disc, degenerative disk disease, and arthritis. That’s the worst of it at that level.
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