This message board does not exist for you to “save” people
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Archives1
Staff member
Life is too short first off. Secondly why do people feel the need to try to force someone else to do something exactly their way. That’s dumb Lol. It’s awesome that something someone did works for them as a person but that doesn’t mean it will work for everyone / me. Lol the simple truth. And that’s the joy of a forum. Take what works for you as a person, and just skip over what wouldn’t work for you and don’t try to convert others as no one is keeping score and if you are that’s truly sad just my humble opinion.
It’s not Rocket Science, it’s WET PANT SCIENCE. LOL
With love and kindness
Sincerely
Jason
It’s not Rocket Science, it’s WET PANT SCIENCE. LOL
With love and kindness
Sincerely
Jason
Archives1
Staff member
Danman, I agree that politics should be kept off this forum but as a support group, anything that has the possibility to provide relief or acceptance of a situation should be welcomed. The mature thing for grown adults to do is ignore the topics they don't agree with or ribs them the wrong way. Religion isn't for everyone but it can help some. My understanding of this forum is to be able to help as many people as possible that's dealing with one firm or another of incontinence.
Archives1
Staff member
Hey guys,
Like Bill - I've been keeping an eye on this thread and seeing what comes of it. As myself of being Christian and Religious- I have found my Faith has helped me heal in terms of coping with my bladder condition.
My significant other actually is very much a person of non faith. They grew up in a very Bible driven home - but the reason why they are a part of the church They are apart of now- is for the people. They are part of an LGBT pro rights advocacy church and they just told me the otber day that they don't go there for the Word - but for the commoroderie.
Likewise, they are many wonderful people I have met in this forum that are here for that too.
Regardless of any religion; social/political or economic status; I hope that the NAFC remains an open door community that is welcoming to others regardless of one's beliefs/non beliefs.
I stand with everyone - we are here to focus on our condition and nothing should separate us from out differences.
Love conquers all!
Take care everyone;
HC
Like Bill - I've been keeping an eye on this thread and seeing what comes of it. As myself of being Christian and Religious- I have found my Faith has helped me heal in terms of coping with my bladder condition.
My significant other actually is very much a person of non faith. They grew up in a very Bible driven home - but the reason why they are a part of the church They are apart of now- is for the people. They are part of an LGBT pro rights advocacy church and they just told me the otber day that they don't go there for the Word - but for the commoroderie.
Likewise, they are many wonderful people I have met in this forum that are here for that too.
Regardless of any religion; social/political or economic status; I hope that the NAFC remains an open door community that is welcoming to others regardless of one's beliefs/non beliefs.
I stand with everyone - we are here to focus on our condition and nothing should separate us from out differences.
Love conquers all!
Take care everyone;
HC
Archives1
Staff member
As always @Honeeecombs. very well said and you hit the bullseye on this!!! There is no reason why people of different faiths and beliefs and ethnicities and whatever else can't come together and discuss our needs and reasons for joining this forum and helping each other as we are all so expert in doing.
Instead of the religious and other aspects being a dividing line maybe we can learn about those beliefs without feeling pressured and with keeping an open mind.
People are different and that's what helps make the world go around! As those little bumper stickers you see on cars these days say,
coexist!!!
Instead of the religious and other aspects being a dividing line maybe we can learn about those beliefs without feeling pressured and with keeping an open mind.
People are different and that's what helps make the world go around! As those little bumper stickers you see on cars these days say,
coexist!!!
Archives1
Staff member
I don't like debates, but being a believer in prayer and jesus myself, I am going to say something here.
firstly, no one on here, (or not what I've seen) has tried to force their beliefs on others. it would be diffrent if someone posted well, you have to believe in god because I do, but they didn't. most basically say, I am praying for you. like it or not, that person is just following their beliefs. it would be wrong to reply with something like, please don't pray for me- if that person wants to pray for you, then I think that's okay- as long as they don't force their religion on you. I have had people from other religions say to me that they are going to do the equivalent in their religion, I just thank them- I don't turn around and say, sorry, I don't believe in that.
I can understand how it would get to some people, but then like has been said, you can skip over the thread, or that part of the thread. I don't think anyone should be discouraged from believeing what they want, just as much as they shouldn't be discouraged to post here. it honestly doesn't take much to skip over a few words or just ignore them. " I'll pray for you", is hjust that person thinking of you and showing kindness. it's not the door that opens in front of you saying oh, I have to believe in prayer now
btw: I didn't even know that deleting your account was an option on here
firstly, no one on here, (or not what I've seen) has tried to force their beliefs on others. it would be diffrent if someone posted well, you have to believe in god because I do, but they didn't. most basically say, I am praying for you. like it or not, that person is just following their beliefs. it would be wrong to reply with something like, please don't pray for me- if that person wants to pray for you, then I think that's okay- as long as they don't force their religion on you. I have had people from other religions say to me that they are going to do the equivalent in their religion, I just thank them- I don't turn around and say, sorry, I don't believe in that.
I can understand how it would get to some people, but then like has been said, you can skip over the thread, or that part of the thread. I don't think anyone should be discouraged from believeing what they want, just as much as they shouldn't be discouraged to post here. it honestly doesn't take much to skip over a few words or just ignore them. " I'll pray for you", is hjust that person thinking of you and showing kindness. it's not the door that opens in front of you saying oh, I have to believe in prayer now
btw: I didn't even know that deleting your account was an option on here
Archives1
Staff member
A couple quick takeaways from this thread:
I have to say Dino and Emily you are so sensible!
If you don't care for a person generally or their train of thought:
SKIP THEIR POSTS!
(Brilliant! I am a compulsive reader so I don't skip)
Secondly: not one of us here asked to JOIN the Incontinence Club. We don't have a thing in common but incontinence.
Lastly: I have grown such respect and learned so much from each of you I don't want to skip your posts! (Our different lifestyles and the "clubs" we do choose are what make the forum.
The fullness of your lives your sprit your humor your pets and pet peeves the various people and daily life it all matters because EVERYONE HERE is under the incontinence umbrella.
Rant or pray go or stay, where ever you go, there you are.
I have to say Dino and Emily you are so sensible!
If you don't care for a person generally or their train of thought:
SKIP THEIR POSTS!
(Brilliant! I am a compulsive reader so I don't skip)
Secondly: not one of us here asked to JOIN the Incontinence Club. We don't have a thing in common but incontinence.
Lastly: I have grown such respect and learned so much from each of you I don't want to skip your posts! (Our different lifestyles and the "clubs" we do choose are what make the forum.
The fullness of your lives your sprit your humor your pets and pet peeves the various people and daily life it all matters because EVERYONE HERE is under the incontinence umbrella.
Rant or pray go or stay, where ever you go, there you are.
Archives1
Staff member
I don't offer a lot in the way of posts but I do learn volumes form you guys. This is a great place to share our particular incontinence issues, ways of managing, product recommendations, medical updates and diagnoses/prognoses as well as mutual support.
While so much of this board is indeed helpful, I would contend there is a lot of drams that takes away from the board's helpfulness.
As a pastor I agree that our faith is personal, but not private. How and where we share it is important. In the church we refer to unsolicited attempts to convert as "flasher evangelism". It is one thing to share our faith but another to be obnoxious and invasive. It is a violation of a person's space and integrity to force one's religion on someone else.
My own observation is that I have personally not seen any obnoxious religious displays. Of course I am not privy to IMs. In the event I do witness any religious intolerance or whatever I simply move on responding in as adult a way as I can. I see this with most of us on this board.
This is a great board, helpful and supportive, let's keep it that way. We don't have to create drama, drama will find us. Lets make it light on ourselves.
While so much of this board is indeed helpful, I would contend there is a lot of drams that takes away from the board's helpfulness.
As a pastor I agree that our faith is personal, but not private. How and where we share it is important. In the church we refer to unsolicited attempts to convert as "flasher evangelism". It is one thing to share our faith but another to be obnoxious and invasive. It is a violation of a person's space and integrity to force one's religion on someone else.
My own observation is that I have personally not seen any obnoxious religious displays. Of course I am not privy to IMs. In the event I do witness any religious intolerance or whatever I simply move on responding in as adult a way as I can. I see this with most of us on this board.
This is a great board, helpful and supportive, let's keep it that way. We don't have to create drama, drama will find us. Lets make it light on ourselves.
Archives1
Staff member
I think for me the bottom line is that it crosses a line when people tell fellow disabled people to look for religion for solutions to their problems. I put that right up there with 'think more positively'. That being said, I haven't seen any of that here thankfully. However, I understand why talk of religion can be off-putting for people.
Archives1
Staff member
Sci fi I think we have many coping mechanism amongst us and perhaps it's when a thread is introduced too much and often that person s religious fervor the group culture feels overwhelmed. I think that would be true of any coping mechanism too much too often it feels like the group think and not allowing for breathing room of others who may have alternative way to think and express themselves or,frankly were oppressed by the main stream of white Anglo-Saxon Christian culture.
Archives1
Staff member
I really tried to avoid this thread, but given all the attention it is receiving, I feel compelled to jump in. In this post, I intend to bring it back to the issue of incontinence as well, but I want to bring up a few personal issues first.
To begin, I am not a Christian. I was not raised a Christian. In fact, my first real encounter with the Christian narrative was seeing “Life of Brian” when I was 16. (I love Monty Python.) I’ve had friends, roommates, and sexual partners, who were Jewish, Christian, Muslim, and atheist, and we were able to respect each other, despite our differences. And in the decades since I was 16, I have learned more – much more in fact. I have spent over half a century mastering biblical Hebrew and Aramaic, and I have a working, but poor, knowledge of koine Greek. Biblical history is one of my professional specialties.
One other thing I know about is PTSD. I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse (CSA) and understand the many ways it impacts people. One of these just happens to be secondary enuresis and other issues pertaining to incontinence. I’ve participated in many group therapy sessions and encountered numerous victims of sexual and other forms of abuse by clergy. I’ve met middle-aged Catholic men, who will not even walk on the same street as a church (I’m actually thinking of one in particular, but I have met more). The scars run deep, when there is abuse, and often, religion of any kind can trigger fierce, visceral reactions. Let’s be real. You would not tell someone who was raped by a priest (or rabbi or imam) to go to a church (or synagogue or mosque) to pray for forgiveness and be cured. They are survivors, who have developed coping strategies to survive. Respect that.
For more information, check out https://www.snapnetwork.org/ . While it began as a Catholic group, it has members from all religious groups.
I do not known Justej. I had no idea that he was not cis until he was outed in this thread (shame on whomever outed him). But his reaction was prompted by a post, “Chosen,” encouraging people to watch a film about Jesus. It had nothing to do with incontinence. It was, what Chaps54 might call “flasher evangelism” (I like that term). This was followed by comments, and I paraphrase, read the Bible in the translation of your choice (I prefer the original language) again and again, and realize that we are all sinners.” To quote Life of Brian, “I’m not.” That’s a particular theology, but it is not a theology shared by everyone. I also saw remarks like, “I didn’t say anything about you being trans…” as if that was some horrible flaw, rather than just who someone is as a person. Imagine how that affects other trans, gay, bi, etc., people on the board reading this. They come for support and suddenly they are not accepted.
Anyway, if you read this far, thank you. I will end with what I said much earlier. I recognize that some people are helped by religion, but I also believe that some people are hurt by religion too. There is no “one cure fits all.” So, lets avoid talking about religion. I believe we can help a lot more people that way. Isn’t that what it is all about?
To begin, I am not a Christian. I was not raised a Christian. In fact, my first real encounter with the Christian narrative was seeing “Life of Brian” when I was 16. (I love Monty Python.) I’ve had friends, roommates, and sexual partners, who were Jewish, Christian, Muslim, and atheist, and we were able to respect each other, despite our differences. And in the decades since I was 16, I have learned more – much more in fact. I have spent over half a century mastering biblical Hebrew and Aramaic, and I have a working, but poor, knowledge of koine Greek. Biblical history is one of my professional specialties.
One other thing I know about is PTSD. I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse (CSA) and understand the many ways it impacts people. One of these just happens to be secondary enuresis and other issues pertaining to incontinence. I’ve participated in many group therapy sessions and encountered numerous victims of sexual and other forms of abuse by clergy. I’ve met middle-aged Catholic men, who will not even walk on the same street as a church (I’m actually thinking of one in particular, but I have met more). The scars run deep, when there is abuse, and often, religion of any kind can trigger fierce, visceral reactions. Let’s be real. You would not tell someone who was raped by a priest (or rabbi or imam) to go to a church (or synagogue or mosque) to pray for forgiveness and be cured. They are survivors, who have developed coping strategies to survive. Respect that.
For more information, check out https://www.snapnetwork.org/ . While it began as a Catholic group, it has members from all religious groups.
I do not known Justej. I had no idea that he was not cis until he was outed in this thread (shame on whomever outed him). But his reaction was prompted by a post, “Chosen,” encouraging people to watch a film about Jesus. It had nothing to do with incontinence. It was, what Chaps54 might call “flasher evangelism” (I like that term). This was followed by comments, and I paraphrase, read the Bible in the translation of your choice (I prefer the original language) again and again, and realize that we are all sinners.” To quote Life of Brian, “I’m not.” That’s a particular theology, but it is not a theology shared by everyone. I also saw remarks like, “I didn’t say anything about you being trans…” as if that was some horrible flaw, rather than just who someone is as a person. Imagine how that affects other trans, gay, bi, etc., people on the board reading this. They come for support and suddenly they are not accepted.
Anyway, if you read this far, thank you. I will end with what I said much earlier. I recognize that some people are helped by religion, but I also believe that some people are hurt by religion too. There is no “one cure fits all.” So, lets avoid talking about religion. I believe we can help a lot more people that way. Isn’t that what it is all about?
Archives1
Staff member
I’m not religious. As a newby, the only religious thread I’ve seen so far that has offended me is this one. Assuming somebody has “Religious PTSD” as a reason to squash any religious threads is unacceptable. The person recommending Chosen did so because it helped him, and he thought it may help somebody else. You say yourself that religion helps some people, that’s good enough for me. If it doesn’t help you, kindly move along to the next thread.
No one is showing disrespect by sharing what has helped them deal with life. Ok I’m done (but I ain’t leaving lol).
No one is showing disrespect by sharing what has helped them deal with life. Ok I’m done (but I ain’t leaving lol).
Archives1
Staff member
@Danman when a man or woman of the cloth commits sexual abuse that isn't a reflection on the religion. It's a reflection on the person who committed the crime and I'll even go do far too say that it's a reflection on his fellow men of the cloth that turned a blind eye to all of the other accusations that have happened during his time as a man of the cloth.
This is a forum to help people cope with certain health issues. For some people religion can be a great source of comfort which can ease the stress of such an embarrassing issue. The previous post about the chosen want derogatory towards anyone. The OP went so far as to create a seperate post so as not to try evangelize to anyone. It took extra effort to read that post and no one is obligated to read every post.
What makes the catholic church look so bad(they are by far the worst offenders) is the fact that other priests go to extreme lengths to hide the crimes of their priests and then shuffle those offenders to other churches and districts instead of reporting these crimes to law enforcement.
No one bright up any derogatory remarks about anyone's lifestyle. Just because some random church member acts in an unflattering way, that shouldn't implicate the religion they belong to. I don't believe the Westboro Baptist church represents all christians, I feel the same about alqaeda and other known terrorist organizations.
As a teenager I was sexually assaulted by a gay person but I don't think that that behavior is the norm amongst the gay community. My point in this is that one person's actions, regardless of group identity isn't representative of all members of that group identity. We are all human and are prone to making poor judgements from time to time. The nature thing too do is to realize that some advice might not suit you and just move on, instead of creating drama over something seemingly trivial. There's no greater minority than the individual.
This is a forum to help people cope with certain health issues. For some people religion can be a great source of comfort which can ease the stress of such an embarrassing issue. The previous post about the chosen want derogatory towards anyone. The OP went so far as to create a seperate post so as not to try evangelize to anyone. It took extra effort to read that post and no one is obligated to read every post.
What makes the catholic church look so bad(they are by far the worst offenders) is the fact that other priests go to extreme lengths to hide the crimes of their priests and then shuffle those offenders to other churches and districts instead of reporting these crimes to law enforcement.
No one bright up any derogatory remarks about anyone's lifestyle. Just because some random church member acts in an unflattering way, that shouldn't implicate the religion they belong to. I don't believe the Westboro Baptist church represents all christians, I feel the same about alqaeda and other known terrorist organizations.
As a teenager I was sexually assaulted by a gay person but I don't think that that behavior is the norm amongst the gay community. My point in this is that one person's actions, regardless of group identity isn't representative of all members of that group identity. We are all human and are prone to making poor judgements from time to time. The nature thing too do is to realize that some advice might not suit you and just move on, instead of creating drama over something seemingly trivial. There's no greater minority than the individual.
Archives1
Staff member
@justej The grossest part is how NAFC does nothing to regulate the religious crap. Prosletyzing is foul. I’ve also received private and extremely insulting private messages from the ultra religious here. Nothing offends me more than someone cranking their religious crap down my throat. Keep your religions to yourself!
@MezaJarJarBinks HOW DARE YOU compare your religious CHOICE to EJ’s biological right to experience any gender he/she chooses! Just because someone reveals their sexuality, doesn’t mean that they’re telling you what to do, unlike when you push your prayers around. EJ only ever talked about himself and didn’t try to make you trans! He doesn’t say to you, “I’m transing for you,” at the end of every email like others do about prayer.
The absolute worst part of the proselytizers is that they never understand how insulting what they do, is.
@MezaJarJarBinks HOW DARE YOU compare your religious CHOICE to EJ’s biological right to experience any gender he/she chooses! Just because someone reveals their sexuality, doesn’t mean that they’re telling you what to do, unlike when you push your prayers around. EJ only ever talked about himself and didn’t try to make you trans! He doesn’t say to you, “I’m transing for you,” at the end of every email like others do about prayer.
The absolute worst part of the proselytizers is that they never understand how insulting what they do, is.
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