NarxCare database: horrifying
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Hi @ritanofsinger, please let us know what your doc said!!! I would think there would be a provision in the Patient's Bill of Rights that we would be given pain medication of some kind. I can't imagine there is nothing that addresses someone's right to be given something for pain relief.
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Billliveshere: Patients' Bill of Rights: My Seattle hospital just merged with the Franciscans, so I read the Catholic Bishops' Directive on hospitals/medical care. Studied like I did in college. They have some worthy rules/ideas; and some contradictions. Technically, they have good rules on pain mitigation (but the new rules from, I think, the Feds, don't). They don't seem as committed to the Patients Bill-of-Rights, though. Where I was horrified (just one of the places, but only a few) is pain at end-of-life. Be glad you aren't there, right now. I hope no one here isn't at end-of-life and has to deal with those Bishops.
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@AlasSouth I have already saved the perfect cocktail of medications I could take at the end of my life. It will be my decision and I will not rot away with someone else in charge of me and my pain… if I can help it. If I get hit by a car tomorrow and am suddenly a quadriplegic, I guess I’d lose my ability to kill myself when the time is right. That is one of my greatest fears.
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ritanofsinger: I read it too. There were no lists of exceptions. Where we may be in trouble is from the Feds, who have established new rules for pain medication. Let's see what I can remember.
No refills on the individual Rx. You need a new Rx every time.
It has to be on special paper, watermarked, heavy paper some druggist can easily feel - sort of like paper money - and it has to be hand-carried to the pharmacist. Since then, I heard if you get all your RXs by mail, that may be an exception to the hand-carry rule.
The number of pills per RX is very limited.
I think there is some rig-a-ma-roll the doctor has to go through - probably more paperwork, too. Our state has a data base for pain-med-prescriptions and your RX has to be entered, and I think the Doc and the Pharmacist has to check it, every time. (Now that one I totally understand. I was on a committee to figure out the rules and training for the "Medical Person In Charge" on our ships. Our Doc-in-charge told us horror stories of his experiences in ERs on the I-5 corridor. We've all heard about the county down in the SE, I think, that has been dispensing a totally ridiculous amount of drugs.). We decided on no drugs on ship, not even locked up in the Captain's safe.
That's what I remember, and I might be mistaken or missed one or not know of exceptions. How do they handle someone dying in Hospice? There must be a way. Same for a patient in the ICU on IV pain killers.
Some Veit Nam vets came back hooked. And the black market provided too much heroin, etc.
Some on this forum live with pain.
That's what this country has come to. You can't laugh; all you can do is cry.
No refills on the individual Rx. You need a new Rx every time.
It has to be on special paper, watermarked, heavy paper some druggist can easily feel - sort of like paper money - and it has to be hand-carried to the pharmacist. Since then, I heard if you get all your RXs by mail, that may be an exception to the hand-carry rule.
The number of pills per RX is very limited.
I think there is some rig-a-ma-roll the doctor has to go through - probably more paperwork, too. Our state has a data base for pain-med-prescriptions and your RX has to be entered, and I think the Doc and the Pharmacist has to check it, every time. (Now that one I totally understand. I was on a committee to figure out the rules and training for the "Medical Person In Charge" on our ships. Our Doc-in-charge told us horror stories of his experiences in ERs on the I-5 corridor. We've all heard about the county down in the SE, I think, that has been dispensing a totally ridiculous amount of drugs.). We decided on no drugs on ship, not even locked up in the Captain's safe.
That's what I remember, and I might be mistaken or missed one or not know of exceptions. How do they handle someone dying in Hospice? There must be a way. Same for a patient in the ICU on IV pain killers.
Some Veit Nam vets came back hooked. And the black market provided too much heroin, etc.
Some on this forum live with pain.
That's what this country has come to. You can't laugh; all you can do is cry.
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My doctor doesn't know about any patients rights for pain medication but as you've probably know, medical personnel are being very cautious about giving people pain medication because of addiction and patient's misuse of really strong pain killers.I don't know what the answer is. I had #10 pain today on my left side and had x-rays of my ribs. She thinks I have a fracture or something although I have strong bones and have not fallen or anything. She did not tell me how to reduce the pain. Heat hasn't helped. Movement is horrendous. We'll see maybe tomorrow what's up.
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Good for you snow. Give someone, you love and/or trust, your medical/legal power of attorney and don't live in fear of dying out of your control. Ask them carry out your wishes. We're all organisms that are going o die eventually from something.
alasSouth, My late husband died in Hospice care. He was on morphine that he could administer but the dosage never went beyond a certain amount no matter how much he pressed the button.
I tried Percocet years ago for back pain but it knocked me out so I quit taking it.Tylenol with codeine is also too much for me. Water and acetaminophen is the best for me and I try to sing.
alasSouth, My late husband died in Hospice care. He was on morphine that he could administer but the dosage never went beyond a certain amount no matter how much he pressed the button.
I tried Percocet years ago for back pain but it knocked me out so I quit taking it.Tylenol with codeine is also too much for me. Water and acetaminophen is the best for me and I try to sing.
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Well @AlasSouth and @snow, for one I don't live anywhere near the Bishops and Snow, you aren't anywhere near the end of life!! You still have so much to give!! But I see why you have planned for that eventuality. It would be grim to rot away and be in pain. I don't have anyone close to me left who can be my power of attorney so I better hope for the best!
I was power of attorney for my dad (after my mom passed on) and I did have to use it. He had a cerebral hemorrhage at age 85 and he never really regained consciousness.
I came to the hospital one day to see him and the social worker met me and said it was time to think about a nursing home. I point-blank said that was not going to happen because it was not my dad's wish. The social worker was very understanding and instantly respected my feelings. Not only was my dad not having that but I wasn't either! It would have been selfish to keep him hanging on in some kind of unconscious state for what good reason???? None!! Well, it isn't an easy decision at all to say to the doctor "this is it." But you have to think about what the other person for whom you are the power of attorney wants. And you know that you're doing the right thing!
I was power of attorney for my dad (after my mom passed on) and I did have to use it. He had a cerebral hemorrhage at age 85 and he never really regained consciousness.
I came to the hospital one day to see him and the social worker met me and said it was time to think about a nursing home. I point-blank said that was not going to happen because it was not my dad's wish. The social worker was very understanding and instantly respected my feelings. Not only was my dad not having that but I wasn't either! It would have been selfish to keep him hanging on in some kind of unconscious state for what good reason???? None!! Well, it isn't an easy decision at all to say to the doctor "this is it." But you have to think about what the other person for whom you are the power of attorney wants. And you know that you're doing the right thing!
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Ritanofsinger and and triple "L" bill: We have those papers filled out - organ donation, power of attorney, living will, a DNR, and they are on file, etc. One nurse in the ER was offended. It violates their training and beliefs, and I understand that, but patients/any person, really, do have rights.
I'm glad the Social Worker listened and respected you & your Dad's wishes - but these days, it needs to be in writing.
Hospice is a darned good thing/idea. If I can, I'll ask for that. Sometimes, you can die at home with friends or family there, even. A shipmate we all liked a lot did that. He even had a tiny glass of wine the same day he went - which the Doc was opposed to. If I'd been the Doc, I'd have poured the glass.
But to make that decision for a relative? It is hard to imagine how hard that must be. (I was out to sea when my Mom died.) In that situation, I believe we have a responsibility. We lost our dog, 2 weeks ago. That was hard enough, but the decision had to be made. 20 times a day, I see something that brings back the memories. But a relative. You are very brave, billliveshere.
I'm glad the Social Worker listened and respected you & your Dad's wishes - but these days, it needs to be in writing.
Hospice is a darned good thing/idea. If I can, I'll ask for that. Sometimes, you can die at home with friends or family there, even. A shipmate we all liked a lot did that. He even had a tiny glass of wine the same day he went - which the Doc was opposed to. If I'd been the Doc, I'd have poured the glass.
But to make that decision for a relative? It is hard to imagine how hard that must be. (I was out to sea when my Mom died.) In that situation, I believe we have a responsibility. We lost our dog, 2 weeks ago. That was hard enough, but the decision had to be made. 20 times a day, I see something that brings back the memories. But a relative. You are very brave, billliveshere.
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I suppose euthanizing animals is practice for when we let a loved one go via hospice or otherwise. The primary thing to think about is the comfort of them, that you’re sparing the animal/human involved from an extremely painful, long, drawn out, natural death, and helping reach a peaceful state of eternal rest. I think every state should allow assisted suicide. Hospice is a good alternative.
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AlasSouth, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts; it's all related, not off-topic. It may be a good thing that some folks oppose every new idea. It's a lot like the processes in scientific discoveries. When I was a Christian conservative I opposed Assisted Suicide, abortion, mixed race marriage, gay marriage, you name it. It's all fear of the unknown and yet the scriptures say, Do not fear. (That was true with the passage of the ERA also, which I campaigned for passage in Colorado, and still after about 50 years the ERA lacks 2 or 3 states to be ratified.)
But later I read some personal stories and saw things from a different aspect. When my granddaughter decided to have her ailing coon hound euthanized recently, like you said, she had a lot of emotional feelings and thoughtful decisions to work through. A couple I knew, made the decision to take their brain dead son off life support after 16 years and they were assaulted verbally and emotionally by people who had no idea what the family had gone through to finally make that decision. They were even sued. Another long time friend had to make the same decision after her husband had a brain aneurysm, was in a coma for months and showed no brain activity. Putting aside our preconceived ideas, our feelings and prejudices and looking point blank at the facts makes a hard decision somewhat easier. Accepting the truth of those facts is often hard to swallow. That search for the facts can extend very far. I think this is what our president has done in Afghanistan.
This last week while I've been experiencing horrible pain, family members have asked me what they can do to help me. My retort, Shoot me! They won't of course and we laugh about it but none of us can know another's pain. That's why many doctors seem so callous. The folks on this forum try to understand our pain and challenges and I'm blown away by the amount of suffering some of us have to endure daily and can still put on a leg and a smile, or grit our teeth, and go out in the world. My problems are minuscule in comparison. I really love you all.
But later I read some personal stories and saw things from a different aspect. When my granddaughter decided to have her ailing coon hound euthanized recently, like you said, she had a lot of emotional feelings and thoughtful decisions to work through. A couple I knew, made the decision to take their brain dead son off life support after 16 years and they were assaulted verbally and emotionally by people who had no idea what the family had gone through to finally make that decision. They were even sued. Another long time friend had to make the same decision after her husband had a brain aneurysm, was in a coma for months and showed no brain activity. Putting aside our preconceived ideas, our feelings and prejudices and looking point blank at the facts makes a hard decision somewhat easier. Accepting the truth of those facts is often hard to swallow. That search for the facts can extend very far. I think this is what our president has done in Afghanistan.
This last week while I've been experiencing horrible pain, family members have asked me what they can do to help me. My retort, Shoot me! They won't of course and we laugh about it but none of us can know another's pain. That's why many doctors seem so callous. The folks on this forum try to understand our pain and challenges and I'm blown away by the amount of suffering some of us have to endure daily and can still put on a leg and a smile, or grit our teeth, and go out in the world. My problems are minuscule in comparison. I really love you all.
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This is a very tough topic to discuss, but it is very important to those going through severe pain and this of us who have (or had) loved ones going through pain and end of life conditions. My mom passed away in a hospice facility a number of years ago, and my dad passed away while in home hospice earlier this year, both in Florida. In both cases I had medical power of attorney. I was careful to have discussions with both of my parents while they were very lucid to know what their wishes were so there was no question as to what they wanted.(and I got it in writing) In my opinion, people who work in the hospice field are truly angels. As my uncle said, once you are in hospice you know what the ending is, you just don't the story that will get you there. The number 1 priority for both my mom and dad was quality of life, or to manage the pain. In both cases, I have no regrets in what we did. I highly recommend going with hospice if the result is not in question, and I have great respect for their doctors who recommended going to hospice care once there was no more that could be done. Best wishes to all!
We live you, too! I’m sorry you’re in so much pain right now.
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ritanofsinger: I appreciate your thoughts. Beautifully organized. Leaves room for all faiths & no faiths. We do agree on rights.
Pain is not comparable. It can only be compared within the individual for his/her pain.
As you said, on here, we meet all sorts of pain, from physical to mental. Sometimes, I'm amazed we don't have more rage, on here. I do believe we have some Very brave individuals. Some excellent examples.
My mother, who was an editor of children's book, said: you have to be infinitely careful, to make a book non-prejudical. She was talking about not just the text. In those days, they could ask the author and artist to rethink or revise, and the publishers had standards. I'm not sure they even check grammar or spelling, now. I suspect they use spell-check and grammerly. Which aren't perfect.
Stay safe.
Pain is not comparable. It can only be compared within the individual for his/her pain.
As you said, on here, we meet all sorts of pain, from physical to mental. Sometimes, I'm amazed we don't have more rage, on here. I do believe we have some Very brave individuals. Some excellent examples.
My mother, who was an editor of children's book, said: you have to be infinitely careful, to make a book non-prejudical. She was talking about not just the text. In those days, they could ask the author and artist to rethink or revise, and the publishers had standards. I'm not sure they even check grammar or spelling, now. I suspect they use spell-check and grammerly. Which aren't perfect.
Stay safe.
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