Recurring Kidney Stones and Incontinence

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Hey all, so for the last few years I've been dealing with recurring kidney stones and urinary incontinence. The stones are pretty painful, I've even ended up in the ER once due to the pain. The incontinence also seems to be getting worse. I wet mainly during the day but also at night sometimes. I've been to multiple urologists and had the full gamut of urodynamic testing, but I never received an official diagnosis. My question is if anyone here also suffers from recurring kidney stones and incontinence? I have a pretty good diet and I try to stay away from the things that I know tend to lead to stones, yet I still get them. I really feel like there's an anatomical connection between the recurring stones and my progressively worsening incontnence but so far I've not been able to find anything on the net that confirms this as a possibility. Anyways, sorry for the the long post but I'd love to hear from anyone who may have suggestions.

 

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I am having a tough time correlating the stone with the incontinence. What kind of incontinence do you have? Is it urge, overflow, stress? Even though kidney stones and incontinence are both in the urinary system, incontinence is a "functional" issue where as stones are more of a developmental? one. (Sorry I can't think of the word I am searching for right now.) Are you incontinent only when you have stones or is it an ongoing issue?

 

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Hey Doug, thanks for the reply. I should have explained myself better in my original post. Unfortunately the incontinence is an ongoing issue (not just when I've got a kidney stone). What I was mainly wondering is if there could be something possibly structurally going on that would make the kidney stones worse. I suffer from overflow and urge incontinence. Admittedly the overflow incontinence does seem to be worse if I'm dealing with a stone because I always feel like I've gotta go and I never really feel as if I'm fully emptying. Hopefully that makes sense. I was just curious if there was any sort of correlation at all, but you're probably right that it's just coincidental, lucky me haha

 

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The only connection I can think of is that people with incontinence tend to try to limit their fluid intact. Dehydration causes stones.

You aren't limiting fluids, are you? You should be drinking as much water as you can stomach.

 

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No, I'm not limiting my fluids. I learned the hard way how bad of an idea that is haha. I shoot for 60-80 oz of water a day.

 

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That is interesting. I too have overflow/urge incontinence. My problem is that my bladder is so huge (lovingly referred to as the 12-hour nurse bladder)that I don't have sensations of it filling. I only pee every 16-24 hours (believe it or not)and when I do it is between 1200-1800 cc's at a time. I was recently in the hospital and had to be cathed because I hadn't voided in 22 hours. I tapped myself for 2100. So the reason I wet my pants is I don't think about going to the bathroom (who does when you don't have to go) and my bladder gets so distended it has a huge spasm. Between the pressure and the spasm, I can't hold it and wet my pants-usually all at once. I have left some pretty impressive puddles behind. Do you have the same problem? It could be that your are making stones in the urine and they can't pass. That is a huge leap though. I am guessing that they just occur coincidentally. Hope this give you some food for thought.
Doug

 

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Doug, I absolutely know what you're talking about with the bladder spasms. I'm a college professor so I go quite a while sometimes without getting to a bathroom. I've had the big accidents before (very embarrassing) but thankfully never in front of a class. I also deal with the spasms when I change position or get up from sitting or laying. That combined with the constant dribbling and never feeling completely empty. It all makes for a super frustrating problem to have. I'm coming to grips with wearing protection, because it's the best solution for me right now. If anyone has any suggestions or recommendations then I would greatly appreciate it.

 

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After trying a ton of anticholinergics and Myrbetriq, I finally broke down and had the Interstim placed. It has really cut down on the # of accidents I have everyday.

 

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Yeah I've tried a lot of medication. They honestly don't seem to help and the side effects (bad headaches for me) were too much. I haven't considered the interstim quite yet. Right now I'm just trying to manage it with briefs and whatnot. I know incontinence has no age quota, and it's no picnic at any age, but late 20's with incontinence definitely stinks (pun not intended haha).

 

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Hi Dallasinc. How frustrating that you haven't yet found a solution. If you haven't done so already, you might ask your doctor to refer you to an incontinence specialist who can evaluate you for your incontinence and teach you strategies/exercises/relaxation techniques. Usually a physical therapist or occupational therapist.

 

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Hey Madeleine, yeah it's been pretty frustrating. I've been to a number of urologists and I believe the last one (current one I should say) specializes in incontinence. Last time I saw her she suggested PT but it didn't help me much. I will probably make another appointment and ask her what else we can do since the PT, nor the drugs seem to be effective. I know it may not be possible, but boy I'd really like to have a cause for all this. One urologist mentioned neurogenic bladder, but I don't have any of the major causes. I have had about 5 or 6 fairly bad concussions over the years, and one minor neck injury. I wonder if that could be a culprit? I also had hernia surgery when I was about 5 or 6 and I wet the bed until 9 or 10 and I've always had leakage after going to the bathroom, no matter what I do. Who knows, I'm just grasping at straws probably. Just have to keep on managing as best I can. I'm still in that adjustment period of wearing a brief pretty constantly (things have been particularly bad lately, probably stress). It's a vicious cycle haha, as sure everyone is aware. Goodness I really rambled, sorry about the long post. It's very nice having someone to talk to though, I appreciate your reply and your suggestion.

 

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Neurologic bladder can be a bit of a waste bin diagnosis. It's a real thing, but a lot of times Dr's also use it as the catch all diagnosis for when they can't actually figure anything else out.

It's pretty unlikely that either the concussions, or the old neck injury are causing continence issues without also causing a suite of other neurological problems. The bladder muscles are all controlled from nerve roots emerging the sacral region, and anything happening in the brain, or cervical region, would probably have other effects all up and down the body. Numbness, tingling, or other disfunctions.

I would bet on a local innervation problem, or an undiagnosed structural abnormality.

Either way, sorry to hear about all the problems you've been having. It really sucks to deal with.

 

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Spartan, yeah that's what I've been gathering. Like I said, the diagnosis never really made much sense to me as I didn't have very many (most not at all) of the causal factors. I think either of the two causes you mentioned could be safe bets. Although my bet is on the structural abnormality. I remember when they did the cystoscopy and the urodynamics testing, they had a hell of a time getting the camera and catheters in. The nurse/doctor said she kept getting stuck on something and they have mentioned a possible stricture in the past. Regardless, I'm realizing that it's a process and I may never get a straight out diagnosis. Frustrating, but I suppose that's the way it goes. Bladder issues unfortunately run in my family, my dad has OAB pretty bad and my grandfather just recently passed away due to bladder cancer. I appreciate the reply and the condolences. I hope you're having a good week thus far.

 

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Sorry PT didn't help. Were you confident your PT was knowledgeable, or if they were trained specifically or certified to treat pelvic floor dysfunctions? I feel for your condition and hope you got the attention you needed. also, Msuspartan makes some good points.I would also ask about a follow up regarding the possibility of a stricture.

 

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Hey Madeleine, I'm pretty sure they were certified to work with pelvic floor dysfunctions. They seemed knowledgeable and it was one that the urologist specifically made the appointment for me, so I have to assume they work with each other a lot on incontinence cases. I appreciate your thoughts and support. I agree, Msuspartan's ideas are solid. I am planning to make another appointment with the urologist and I will be sure to ask whether either of those two things are a possibility. Thank you again for your reply. This board really is helpful in helping me not feel so alone in all this.

 

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Dallasinc, hang in there and don't give up hope. It looks like you have some more options to explore. I'll be praying you find the answers you need to move forward and hopefully find a cure for your incontinence.

 

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Thank you Madeleine, I appreciate it!