Major surgery and incontinence

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I have had liver and bowel issues for many years, and the time has come that I'm going to be listed for a liver transplant. The transplant team wants my colon removed before the transplant surgery, so that's going to happen in the next few months.

The bowel surgery will be a proctocolectomy with end ileostomy, which means they'll remove my entire colon, rectum, and anus. The end of my small intestine will be routed through my abdomen, where a bag will collect the waste. They'll stitch up the opening where my anus used to be. I've talked to a woman who had this, and it sounds like the recovery is going to be long and difficult.

I'm concerned about how my urinary incontinence is going to affect the healing process. Diapers create the sort of warm, moist environment that can lead to infection, and dressings on the wound may get soaked with urine. I've thought about external catheters, but in addition to urge incontinence I have retention problems so I do intermittent catheterization several times through the day, which would make an external catheter difficult.

During and immediately after the surgery in sure I'll have a Foley catheter, but I doubt they'll want to leave that in for very long. While I'm in the hospital (7 to 9 days is what I've read) they could just put me on an underpad, but that's not a very good option once i go home.

Had anybody here been through anything like this? How was it handled?
 
I wish you the best of luck with your upcoming surgery.

I've never had anything nearly as extensive as what you're contemplating. However, I had surgery for an inguinal hernia and was concerned about the incision getting wet. The surgeon tested my urine and said that it seemed to be sterile (as urine is supposed to be). So I wore my usual diaper after the surgery, and the incision was exposed to the wet diaper. There was no sign of any infection.
 
Sounds like you are going to have an ileostomy which means the collection bag and incision should be above your waist line so you should be able to urinate in a diaper and the incision should not get wet. Good luck 👍
 
@dougsbc, The ileostomy will probably be above my belt line, but they're also going to remove my anus. That's the incision I'm really worried about, since that's the wound that's already notorious fit being hard to heal.

@Inconmiss, that's good to know that it wasn't a problem for you. My transplant surgeon already knows I'm incontinent, and I'll make sure that gets passed along to the colorectal surgeon in case they want to do any testing ahead of time.
 
Hi ItaPilot,

That doesn't sound good at all. I don't know what's wrong with your colon that it has to be removed. But if a part of the intestine really has to be removed, then it is probably smarter to do it beforehand. By the way, this is true for all other surgeries as well.

The problem with any transplantation is that the body is immunosuppressed so that it does not reject the implant. This means that the body's own immune system is shut down. As a result, there is a high risk of infection, since the body itself can hardly defend itself against bacteria.

Since every hospital stay and every intervention increases the risk of infection, the interventions that are possibly also (life) important - as, for example, in the case of colon cancer should be performed beforehand.

In the end, it is often a question of the time window one has. I don't know the background, but I would definitely get a second opinion on the whole topic and really discuss and weigh _all_ possible consequences - also those of a non-treatment.

As for the diapers - I think that is then for different reasons not a good option anymore. I would assume that in case of doubt it will rather come down to a condom catheter. Permanent catheters and abdominal catheters would be rather unsuitable in relation to the planned transplantation from my point of view.

I keep my fingers crossed that everything goes well and you make the right decisions. I think such a situation is extremely difficult and I wish you that you find the right advice and the right support.
 
Here's a bit of background. This is long, and some of it is pretty technical; feel free to skip to the last paragraph. :) (I'm an engineer, so I really do talk like this, and I've done a lot of reading about the conditions I have.)

I have ulcerative colitis (UC) with primary sclerosing cholantitis (PSC). UC is an inflammatory bowel disease that causes inflammation in the colon and rectum, and after my diagnosis in 1988 I had years of bloody diarrhea, sometimes 20 or more times per day. Around 1997 I finally got it more under control, and by 2005 or so I had it fully in remission. I've had a few minor flares since then, but very little blood.

PSC is a disease that causes inflammation and scarring in the bile ducts both inside and outside of the liver, which leads to strictures, blockages, and ultimately obliteration of the ducts. This leads to liver damage and eventually cirrhosis, which is the point that my liver is at. PSC is almost always associated with inflammatory bowel disease, most commonly UC, but it's a fairly rare disease. I was diagnosed with this formally in 2001, but I have had elevated liver enzymes on blood tests all the way back to 1990 so that's likely when the disease actually started. There are no known treatments for PSC, so it just slowly runs its course, eventually leading to a liver transplant. Average time from diagnosis to transplant is usually quoted as 8-13 years, and I've survived 22 years of it, so I feel like I've had a good run. Besides the liver damage, PSC carries a high risk for cholangiocarcinoma (CCA), which is cancer of the bile ducts, and a slightly lower but still high risk for hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC), which is cancer of the liver cells. If they're caught early, these can be treated with transplant followed by chemotherapy. Fortunately I don't have either of these yet, though there is always the chance that they'll find it when they do pathology on the removed liver after a transplant.

UC carries an increased risk for colon cancer, and UC/PSC carries an extremely high risk for colon cancer. When I was diagnosed at 32, I started getting colonoscopies every three years, then when I turned 40 that became every year. In 2020 they found low grade dysplasia, which is very early precancerous changes in the tissue of the bowel, so they went to colonoscopies every six months, and my gastroenterologist went off and took a course to enable him to do chromoendoscopy to do better screening. However, up until recently there were no visible lesions, just low grade dysplasia on random biopsies. This year he insisted that I go to Colorado and get a chromoendoscopy from a doctor who does a lot more of them, and I had that appointment two weeks ago. The endoscopist was horrified that they hadn't already taken out my colon, though it's fair to point out that the research is far from conclusive on whether that is actually necessary with low grade dysplasia. Still, she wanted to get me an immediate referral to their colorectal surgeons; I declined because I wanted to talk it over with the hepatologist and transplant surgeon that I was going to see in a couple of days.

My PSC gave me no symptoms until around 2010, when I started having intense itching. This is a hallmark of liver disease, so that wasn't surprising. In 2012, I had a sudden onset of severe fatigue, nausea, jaundice, abdominal pain, and even more intense itching. I started having fairly regular ERCPs and cholantioscopies, which are procedures inspect and dilate the ducts. Those were able to keep the symptoms mostly at bay, though it would often take several procedures before they'd manage to get the instruments in to the right place to dilate. Nonetheless, they were able to keep the symptoms mostly tolerable.

In 2022, I had four episodes of ascending cholangitis, which is a bacterial infection of the bile ducts caused by them getting scarred and the bile pooling in them and becoming a great place for bacteria to grow. These infections are life-threatening, though fortunately mine were all able to be controlled by oral antibiotics and I didn't need to be hospitalized. This year when I called to make an appointment with my hepatologist, he looked at my recent records and told me that he wanted me to come to Denver for an evaluation for a living donor transplant. After my insurance dragging their feet on approving some of the required tests (they still haven't approved one), I got an appointment set to do the evaluation. Happily, the next appointment coincided with the trip for the colonoscopy, so I went up there fr a week and got both things done.

At the colonoscopy they confirmed low-grade dysplasia in my ascending colon and indeterminate dysplasia in my transverse colon, which is exactly what my doctor in Albuquerque has seen. However, now the lesions have grown to the point that they're visible, so that represents progression of the disease. The liver transplant team agreed that I'm a good candidate for a living donor liver transplant, but they want me to have the colectomy surgery scheduled before I get listed. The formal listing for a liver transplant will happen before I have the colectomy, though, because there's a risk that my liver will shut down as a result of the surgery and they'll have to do an emergency transplant to keep me alive.

The reason the colectomy has suddenly become so important is twofold: one is that we're seeing progression of the dysplasia, which is always worrisome, and the other is that any dysplasia will advance to cancer much faster once I'm immunosuppressed after the transplant. The timing is set by technical aspects of the surgeries; living donor liver transplant surgery ends up with bile ducts and blood vessels wrapped around the colon in a way that would make it very challenging for a colorectal surgeon to remove the colon without damaging other things.

So, the upshot is that I need a colectomy because I'm at very high risk for colon cancer and it's better to remove it before it's cancerous than after. I need a new liver because mine is damaged enough that I can no longer keep the bile duct infections at bay. Once I find out when the colectomy will take place, I can start looking for a living donor. Because my PSC increases the chances of pouch problems, I am probably not a very good candidate for a J-pouch, so that leaves me looking at an end ileostomy and complete removal of my rectum and anus along with everything else. Basically, my digestive tract will end at the end of my small intestine, where liquid stool will exit through a hole in my abdomen and be collected in a bag taped there. Three to six months after the colectomy, they'll do another surgery to put a new liver into me - or at least 60% of a liver, since we're planning on a living donor transplant.
 
Well I'm glad to know you. It's a story of a friend I've never met who is brave and strong and we are hear to be part of your support team.
You are in our thoughts and for those that pray. Prayers.
Stay with us.
 
Hello Itapilot,

it sounds like you've been through quite a bit. The dysplasia is one thing, of course. Moderate and severe dysplasia are classified as precancerous, and if they have worsened significantly in recent years, as you say, that is not a good sign.

I agree that if a high risk of colorectal cancer is identified, removal of the affected parts should definitely be done before transplantation. What I don't quite understand is why you think you are not a good candidate for a J-pouch. From what I've heard, that's actually the standard for advanced UC. I think the interesting question will be more about how well the sphincter works afterwards - so it would be interesting to hear from people who have had such surgery.

If you're really thinking about an ileostomy, maybe there's another thing to consider. I think you wrote once that you were also having severe problems because of your interstitial cystitis. Perhaps - if you really decide to have an ostomy - it would also be a consideration to have the ureters relocated as well and the bladder taken out. In this case, the care would probably be much easier and the whole Botox - Interstim story would be omitted.
 
Thank you all for your insights.

The choice of J-pouch or ileostomy hasn't been made. So far I only have the recommendation of the gastroenterologist who did the recent endoscopy, and my own thoughts about what's going to work best for me.

The problem is that UC/PSC has a much higher risk of complications, ranging from pouchitis (colitis in the J-pouch) to anal cancer. The research is limited because it's a rare disease, but the rate of pouch failures that result in permanent ileostomy appear to be much higher with UC/PSC than with UC alone.

On top of that, about the best I could hope for long term with the pouch would be six bowel movements a day. Having to find a toilet every two to three hours is not very appealing to me. It will make it difficult to do many of the things I enjoy. Having to empty an ileostomy pouch every four to six hours doesn't seem so bad in the context of that.

Is a discussion I plan to have with the surgeon at my consult in a couple of weeks.

As far as getting urostomy, I brought that up with my urologist shortly after my GI first found dysplasia, when I still thought I'd end up having a colectomy right away. The urologist was not very receptive to the idea. Her first response was, "But you'd have to wear a bag!" I pointed out that one bag or two bags didn't matter much. She also pointed out that bladder removal sometimes does not resolve interstitial cystitis pain. I plan to bring this up with my new urologist when I see him next week, though, as I'm still thinking that it might be a good solution to the pain and incontinence issues I have with my bladder.
 
@ltapilot, your team here is all behind you till you get this procedure done and you can start feeling better. I know you will lean on us when you need or want too, we are all here and will be wanting to get you back on track. Yes like you we are the support team! My thoughts and prayers are with you to get back on your feet as quick as you can. boom
 
Thank you all for your support and prayers. It means a lot to me.

My surgical consult is the week after next, and the surgery will probably be in the middle of July.

One thing about my colon: After 35 years of UC, I'm not going to miss it when it's gone!
 
This may not be of help but after my RP, the urethrae connection back to the bladder would not heal. It kept leaking. To add insult to injury, the foley catheter kept leaking around that as well. I sat and laid on bed pads, naked, for about 8-9 weeks. Not my favorite thing to do and was limited in movement but thats how I dealt with it. I changed the bed pads about every hour due to the excessive leakage around the foley. Perhaps that is one way for you to at least allow the healing to take place before moving on to the next challenge. I wish you all the best.
 
Thank you for the input. That really does help me.

I see the surgeon in a little over a week, and I'll know more then about what my surgery and recovery are going to look like. I'll hopefully find out if he intends to do open or laprascopc surgery, which will have a huge impact on my healing process; the bad part is, even if he does it laproscopically, in a few months I'll still have the liver transplant that has to be done as open surgery, so the benefits of laproscopic surgery for my colon removal will be short-lived at best.
 
I met with my urologist yesterday. He told me that none of my other surgery should impact the treatment for my interstitial cystitis, do he wants to carry on with the regular botox injections. They help a lot, so I'm pretty happy with that answer.

I asked him if my prostate was contributing to my problems, and he didn't think so. He did a prostate exam and said it's not enlarged and there are no bumps or anything that concerns him, and my PSA is low. I also asked how we monitor my prostate when I don't have a rectum or anus anymore, and he said that we can just do an annual PSA, and follow up with a prostate MRI if necessary.
 
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